Baldwin 801CP

[guitarchuck]

Wayne,
That's a really nice find! I had a guitar for a while that had originally belonged to Ray Cummins. It also had a Prismatone that was designed for use without a pre-amp. I was amazed at how loud it was without any battery power. I was told that it was a second or third generation Prismatone pickup. I don't know that for a fact, but it sounded really good and no preamp was required.

[Bluebird_12]

Thanks Chuck;

That's what surprises me about this guitar...no preamp at all, just a volume knob and there is lots of output just the way it is.

Wayne

[PhilHunt]

Chuck,
If you're talking about the Zimmerman classical....that was a Prismatone "clone" pickup built by someone from Gretsch wasn't it? It wasn't an actual Baldwin Prismatone was it?

[guitarchuck]

Phil,
Yes, it was the Zimmerman classical. If it was a clone they did a very good job of faking it. It acturally said: "BALDWIN PRISMATONE PAT. APPLIED FOR" on the label. Here's the only photo I still have of it:

I also have a photo of the wiring inside that shows no pre-amp.

[PhilHunt]

Chuck, Two things that stand out about that pickup....1)There's no tiny roll pin holes on both sides where the adjustment poles screws would be 2)The Prismatone sticker is on the top.
Are you sure it had no preamp even where that volume knob was?

[guitarchuck]

Phil,
The pickup had 2 studs that went through the top of the guitar with nuts under the top. It only had wires coming from the volume pot tied to the pickup with wire nuts. No pre-amp. No pre-amp at the output jack either. I've often wished I would have kept that guitar. Those of you that know me, know that I only have 3 guitars in what I call my permanent collection. Of course that's also subject to change!

[PhilHunt]

If that was a true Prismatone pickup it would have needed something to drive it. Just a volume knob ain't gonna drive it. It needs something to agitate the piezo crystals under the saddle.
If I was to plug my Baldwin straight into an amp with nothing driving it, it would sound very tinny and brittle.
Sam and I have talked about that Zimmerman guitar before. That pickup was probably the work of somebody from Gretsch or someone trying to make it look like a Prismatone.
From looking at it, it just doesn't have the characteristics of the normal Prismatone. But, then again I might be wrong.

[guitarchuck]

Phil,
I wish I had more info about that pickup. Here's the only other thing I have. It's a email reply that I got from Ray Cummins from a few years back:

Do you remember where you got the Prismatone pickup from? A friend. He passed away.

There was some discussion about the Prismatone pickups having a 22.5v battery power. I understand that this one doesn't require a battery. Does the one on your Dorado take a battery? My Dorado came with a little battery pack. It had a cord and it plugged into my guitar and another came out of it into my amp. Do you know the difference in this pickup and the Prismatone's that require battery power? Not sure but was told the one on the Zimmerman was a newer pickup and did not require the battery pack. I'm sorry for the delay in getting back with you. Sometimes I am out of town. e mail me anytime......
Thanks,

Ray

[Bluebird_12]

So does the 22.5 battery pack act something like phantom power...actually powering the pup in some way?

Wayne

[bill park]

So does the 22.5 battery pack act something like phantom power...actually powering the pup in some way?

Wayne

Wayne -
The Prismatone external power supply (battery) box powers the onboard preamp. Most other companies (Takamine, Fishman, LR Baggs, etc.) use an onboard battery compartment to power their onboard preamp. For some reason, Baldwin designed their Prismatone with an external battery compartment - not real convenient, but the battery box used an expensive industrial 22.5v battery so perhaps the designers felt it would be easier to service the battery if it was in a separate box.
Thanks,
Bill