Chet's Classical Influences

[RandeDager]

This is exactly why I don't let formally trained musicians know that I play by ear when they learn that I'm a musician and begin to ask questions, but haven't yet heard me. They otherwise seem to look down their noses and negative assumptions are made. AFTER I've played for someone, and those same questions are asked, then I have no problem letting them know that I studied at "Dager University".

[synchro]

There seems to be a real gulf between academic music and music learned more informally. In the early '80s I taught in a music store that was oriented towards band and orchestra players in the local school system. The owner of the store railed on me to crack down on my students and treat them the way a band or orchestra teacher might be treated by a harsh teacher. He never seemed to "get" that guitar students had a different motivation for being there. They weren't under pressure for school events, the pressure came from within and perhaps from their peer group. They cared about Van Halen and Stevie Ray Vaughan and probably didn't even rub elbows with the kids in the band program.

That was, and will remain, my last teaching job for a store. By the time I had been there a year I had my fill of the owner's "dutch uncle" attitude. My grasp of theory was as good as his other, band instrument, teachers but he wanted regimentation, sort of like a marching band. When I left they replaced me with a folk guitar teacher that taught classes instead of individual lessons and I'm sure that he bought gold stars in bulk. It was a perfect match and I was just glad to be away from it.

Chet walked a great line between both worlds IMHO. He obviously knew his stuff and was a great arranger. I remember hearing a quote along the lines that he read music but not enough to hurt his abilities. I've read since my first lesson away back in 1966 and am glad that I do but . . . learning to play by ear took effort as well and was truly essential IMHO.

Those symphony members in San Antonio just didn't have the sense to realize what a privilege they had been given.

[Norm]

On page 169 of "Country Gentleman" Chet is talking about Bouleaux Bryant...
"He taught me a lot about classical music because he knew almost every classical piece that had been writtend. He would teach me the melody and I would make up my own arrangements."

As for the "not enough to hurt my playing" I always thought it was a clever line but I think he read music somewhat better than that line implies. By using that line he was carefully not 'putting on airs' to the by-ear people.

Having said that, I doubt he needed to read sheet music other than to perhaps confirm something occasion.

Learning to read music is an asset.


"...The whole notion that reading music stifles your creativity is like making the argument that being illiterate means you are more creative than you would be if you could read!..."

[synchro]

On page 169 of "Country Gentleman" Chet is talking about Bouleaux Bryant...
"He taught me a lot about classical music because he knew almost every classical piece that had been writtend. He would teach me the melody and I would make up my own arrangements."

As for the "not enough to hurt my playing" I always thought it was a clever line but I think he read music somewhat better than that line implies. By using that line he was carefully not 'putting on airs' to the by-ear people.

Having said that, I doubt he needed to read sheet music other than to perhaps confirm something occasion.

Learning to read music is an asset.


"...The whole notion that reading music stifles your creativity is like making the argument that being illiterate means you are more creative than you would be if you could read!..."

I would agree completely. I've never felt that reading hurt me a bit but I will just as quickly state that learning to play by ear took some real effort on my part. It's easy for me now but 35 or so years back not so much. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Chet understood music to a greater degree than many classically trained musicians and I would imagine that his father having been a music teacher probably afforded some opportunities to learn from the academic side of the music world.

[RandeDager]

My theory is that Chet learned to read music so that he could communicate and coordinate with other formally trained musicians. Needing to read music to learn a song is a different story. I've never depended upon that and I doubt that he did either.

[Norm]

The idea of reading music scares some people. They always felt comforted by his "not enough to hurt my playing" line but the problem there is the implication that reading music "hurt" ones ability to play. People would cling to that as an excuse not to even try learing the rudiments of reading notes.

I decided I wanted to learn that Ken Burns Civil War background tune "Ashokan Farewell" on my Dobro. So I go on YouTube and there's a whole bunch of folks playing the tune, each one playing it differently and mostly badly. A certain musician impressed on me years ago that there is no 'maybe' way to play a song. You either play it accurately or you don't. Well, A/F is a pretty linear tune so I scared up a simple notated sheet of the thing and worked on "playing it like it is on the paper" There isn't a lot of difference tuning-wise on a Dobro G tuning and regualr guitar.

End result, I was able to play the notes correctly right away and once I had the basic melody correct I shcmoozed it into a nice arrangement. I am confident I saved myself hours of hunt and peck on the d__d thing.

I'm sure Chet did the same thing once in a while. Most of my playing is done by ear but I'll always have that old hillbilly standing by my elbow cornering me about playin the melody accurately before I take off and jam on it.

[RandeDager]

I guess the point of emphasis is contained in the word "accurately". A good ear can discern this. If I felt that I didn't get it right or was missing something, then I would do whatever it took to get it right, including learning to read music. I've learned things like "The Stars and Stripes" and "Cascade" solely through listening and have never had those familiar with them tell me that I did something wrong or that there was something missing. The same is true for many jazz tunes with very intricate harmonies. What I HAVE HAD questions about occasionally is regarding positioning. Sometimes just by watching Chet or Jerry at their concerts, I'd pick up little refinements, which had nothing to do with finding the right notes, but rather to find WHERE they were playing them. Most of the time I get it right when I first learn a song.

My biggest challenge is with technique and speed. I can know exactly how Buster played "Wild Turkey" but I'll go to my deathbed never playing it with his speed an accuracy! That's more of a "physical gift" than having anything to do with learning HOW to play it.

Norm, I have no trouble agreeing with the man from Muskegon, Michigan about the importance of reading music when it's necessary. To work with a group of musicians who need to keep together, it's probably more important. And of course, to learn a tune that seems otherwise impossible, it's the only way to go.

[bill raymond]

I think Chet once said in an interview that he'd try to work out a song by ear and also check out the written music for some of the chord progressions, making sure he hadn't missed something. I doubt he worked out any of his classical pieces (the Tarrega tunes, etc.) solely by ear.

[RandeDager]

You could be right, Bill. However, I personally feel that to analyze the close harmony in some of the complex jazz chords is more of a challenge than to analyze a classical piece, with it's more "normal" harmonies. Now there may be other reasons to read the notation for the classical piece, but as far as getting the notes right, I don't see too much of a problem.

[Norm]

I knew a guy who was a guitar teacher who played very well by ear. One rainy afternoon it wasn't busy in the store so we would put pieces of music in front of him and marvel at how well he could sight read.

Here's the thing

"nobody 'always' everything" including Chet Atkins. I think he read music better than most people think but at the same time he had absorbed so much guitar due to his immense practicing regimen that, like he said once,'you get so if you hear someone play something you pretty much can figure out where and how they did it."